---
title: "Oh, I wasn't proposing an extreme collectivist model as the solution.…"
date: 2021-12-07
source: facebook
type: Archer T. Ships shared a link.
---

# Oh, I wasn't proposing an extreme collectivist model as the solution.…

*December 7, 2021 · Facebook*

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Oh, I wasn\'t proposing an extreme collectivist model as the solution. I was identifying the extreme individualist model as the problem. If I\'m to propose an alternative, I\'d go with a more tempered in-between, like social democracy. Admittedly, after living in one for five years now and it literally saving my life, I\'m a little biased.\
You\'re right that the core problem is the myth of \"eternal growth\" (although I do like your pithy summary as \"number-go-up\"). The thing is that that myth is central to the unfettered capitalism that America has barreled towards since the post-war era. Some extremes of collectivism have fallen into playing that game occasionally, often at the prompting of capitalist rivals, and always to their eventual detriment.\
Ultimately, the myth of eternal growth is a common goal of empires, because an empire that stops expanding starts collapsing. And as much as it\'s exciting to live in an empire at first, it rarely ends well for anyone involved. I\'m not sure there have been any social-democratic empires, because the goal of stability is almost counter to the entire enterprise of empire, but that\'s just another reason I\'d heartily recommend the more tempered blend between capitalism and communism that we call socialism.\
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There have been been a number communist / communalist experiments at every scale. Most fail utterly. The most common failure mode is the productive become fed up supporting increasing numbers of parasitic members, and eventually leave.\
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And if they \_can\'t\_ easily leave, well, some of the poorest, most miserable places on earth right now are failed communist experiments (North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela).\
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The few experiments that \"succeed\" do so within countries that are mostly free markets. And even these social democratic \"successes\" are facing economic collapse as increasing populations of elderly rely on wealth transfers paid by a shrinking population of productive people.\
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As we speak, inflation fueled spending is cutting the value of the dollar by 1% per month. (Thus enabling the USG to pay promised fixed welfare payments at the cost of making the dollar increasingly worthless.)\
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The cities of San Francisco / Oakland have become shit-filled shanty towns that can\'t even prevent roving bands of thieves from looting businesses. This despite the fact they a) have been utterly controlled by progressives for decades b) enjoy massive amounts of tax revenue as ground zero of the multiple tech booms. If they\'re this bad now, what are they going to be like when that tax revenue drives up?\
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But, no no, the problem is never grasping, economically illiterate socialists driving their economies into the ground. The problem is too much individualism and economic growth.\
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